LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Four years ago today, Russia launched its all-out war on Ukraine, a war the Kremlin believed would end in days with Ukrainian capitulation. Instead, Ukraine resisted and has held back a much larger Russian army with some help from Western allies. The war has come at a great personal cost, though, to both sides, and a year of U.S.-sponsored peace talks have not managed to end it. NPR's Joanna Kakissis has covered this war from the beginning and joins us now from her base in Ukraine's capital, Kyiv. Good morning, Joanna.
JOANNA KAKISSIS, BYLINE: Good morning, Leila.
FADEL: You know, as I mentioned there, you've covered virtually this entire war, speaking to Ukrainians every day. Four years on, how are they faring?
KAKISSIS: Well, Leila, Ukrainians are really exhausted, but I hear them say all the time, do we have a choice, other than to keep defending ourselves, since Russia's still attacking, still trying to take our land? Russia has repeatedly bombed Ukrainian cities. I've seen these attacks cleave apartment buildings into burning ruins and flatten entire towns. Russian forces have killed thousands of Ukrainian civilians and wounded tens of thousands more.
Here's Olha Chupikova. She lost her only child, her son Dima (ph), on the front line. He was killed last year defending Ukraine.
OLHA CHUPIKOVA: (Speaking Ukrainian).
KAKISSIS: She's saying, "I know it sounds insane, but I keep sending text messages to his phone, even though he will never read them."
FADEL: Oh, that hurts my heart. Do we know the extent of the casualties on both sides?
KAKISSIS: Well, Russia and Ukraine have not publicly revealed the true extent of their own losses on the battlefield. But a recent report by the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C., estimated that up to 1.2 million Russian soldiers and 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed, wounded or are missing. Now, this study also says that Russia has suffered more losses than any major power in any conflict since World War II.
FADEL: I mean, those numbers are staggering. I mean, what is the situation on the battlefield today?
KAKISSIS: Well, Russia controls roughly 19% of Ukraine's territory, but much of that land was seized back in 2014 when Russia took over parts of eastern and southern Ukraine. The Institute for the Study of War in Washington, D.C., says Russia has gained only about 1.5% of Ukrainian territory since 2023. So this has really become a war of attrition. Ukraine is hanging on but using its own cutting-edge drones and weapons to hold back the Russians.
FADEL: Now, President Trump once promised to end this war in a day. That obviously has not happened. There's been a year of sponsored peace talks to no avail. Today, as the world marks this grim anniversary, are the negotiations leading anywhere?
KAKISSIS: Well, the Trump administration did manage to get both sides to the table, but even President Trump has admitted that securing a peace deal is challenging. The Kremlin is demanding that Ukraine surrender territory, including land in eastern Ukraine that is not controlled by Russian forces. Ukraine, of course, has rejected this idea. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says his country wants peace, but a peace that does not reward the aggressor - Russia. Here he is in a video his office released today, marking four years of war.
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PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: (Speaking Ukrainian).
KAKISSIS: He's saying, "this is why there are so many rounds of negotiations - so any peace agreement is strong because history is watching us closely."
FADEL: That's NPR's Joanna Kakissis in Kyiv. Thank you for your reporting, as always.
KAKISSIS: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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